Exploring empathy and real listening, Episode 60 of Creative Work Hour breaks down why “I know exactly how you feel” can miss the mark. The crew shares practical advice for supporting friends with presence, emotional intelligence, and active listening.

Transcript
Greg
00:00 - 00:31
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Creative Work Hour Podcast. Today is episode 60. It is July the 19th, 2025 and in the room today we have myself, Greg, we have Alessandra, Devon, Dr Melanie, Ellie, Gretchen, Hilary, Shadows Pub, and Wei Ling. And today's question is, you're sharing a struggle with a friend, what would be helpful to hear in response?
 
Greg
00:31 - 00:42
We were talking about this before the recording, Alessandra, and it's quite an interesting subject, isn't it? Because sometimes we think that we can be communicating well, but maybe not quite so much.
 
Alessandra
00:43 - 01:26
And we like to think of ourselves as creatives. And as creatives, we do kind of pride ourselves on being in touch with what needs to be expressed in the creative world, at least in our own creative lives. And the state that we find ourselves in, whether we got up feeling chipper and got our first cup of coffee and we're off to the races, or if we got up on the wrong side of the bed, having the feels throughout the day and sometimes having the feels throughout an issue that is either in time resolving or maybe not resolving in due course.
 
Alessandra
01:26 - 02:04
Sometimes we just feel like we're on a struggle bus. I know I've been going through that this week and I think it has to do with, I've been doing so much at such high intensity levels and then also having Interactions with people at levels that I'm not used to like it's taken a lot and I've really been struggling this week. And so it makes a difference in like how we interact with one another is do we have the kindness skills to be with someone who may be hurting or struggling with something and it could just be a frustration with a tool.
 
Alessandra
02:04 - 02:41
It doesn't have to be some big relational thing, but the feeling is can be quite intense sometimes. And if you're talking to somebody about it, the response you get back from them can either ease the struggle or it could make it harder. And I read an article this week that actually was written by our own Greg, the producer of the CWH podcast. And it did take into account that, you know, people don't know how you feel, their skills, to communicate that, and then their skills to listen.
 
Alessandra
02:42 - 03:02
And so what we're talking about today are about the skills to listen. And in some books, people call that emotional intelligence. And so this episode is about building or reinforcing emotional intelligence and learning how to actively and kindly Listen. Now, that sounds all so serious, and it is.
 
Alessandra
03:04 - 03:38
But my partner in crime, Devin, has a beautiful way of what I'm struggling, that he knows how to listen, and when I least expect it, he knows how to make me laugh. So as we were talking about the topic in the pre-podcast recording session, Devin got us completely cracked up with putting the perfect movie scene in when we least expected it. Devon, tell us what you have that just kind of brings an example of what we're talking about and building an emotional intelligence to be kind and how we listen to someone.
 
Devin
03:39 - 03:57
Sure. Thanks, Alessandra. Yeah, I tend to think and communicate in movie lines, because a good movie line often just captures a whole concept or sentiment. And as we were talking about this idea, the first one that popped in mind was one of my favorite scenes from the original Deadpool movie.
 
Devin
03:57 - 04:13
And this is the scene where the main character, Wade, Deadpool, meets Vanessa, his future girlfriend. And they're standing at the bar where they all hang out. and they start one-upping each other in bad childhood stories. They're just like, we had this, oh yeah, but we had this worse.
 
Devin
04:14 - 04:41
You know, that happened to you once, it's happened to me all the time. I keep going back and back and back and it finally ends when Vanessa says, my family lived in a box. And Wade counters with, you had a box? And that just hit me as a truism because some folks, that's how they respond is, is the, you tell me a struggle you're having and I tell you about a bigger struggle that I'm having or that I had, and obviously that's not helpful to the person who was
 
Devin
04:41 - 04:48
sharing originally, so that's what popped into my strange brain as we were talking through this topic. Thank you Devin.
 
Greg
04:48 - 05:23
Yeah, it is very important when we communicate to communicate well and I think that sometimes as Alessandra mentioned not everyone's taught to listen and really hear we're taught to listen to respond and I think that sometimes people mean very well when they say I know exactly how you feel and they're trying to relate to you and thinking of something that happened to them but it can be you know for some people it can be very dismissive can't it shifts the focus away from you and your struggle and onto them and then you know For me, most of the time, it would just be empathy. It would just be
 
Devin
05:46 - 06:08
I hear what you're saying, that sounds like a difficult situation you're in, that must be a real challenge. Something along those lines, that I hear you, I actually care about what you're saying, and you have my support. Without, really, most of the time, that would be what I would want out of someone I was sharing with.
 
Greg
06:09 - 06:17
Yeah, that would be really helpful, absolutely. Melanie, how about you? Sharing a story with a friend, what would be a helpful response from them?
 
Dr Melonie
06:17 - 06:43
Well, my first tendency, although I've mitigated this tendency a little bit, is to fix it. Somehow make it better. And that's not always the best first step, depending on what the struggle is. For me, it could be a whole bunch of different responses, even one that didn't make me feel completely heard if it were somehow or another appropriate to the setting and our interaction.
 
Dr Melonie
06:44 - 06:57
which I find kind of odd, but I think it's true. I really like humor when it can work. It's lovely. It's like hearing a response that was I didn't expect, which is always nice.
 
Dr Melonie
06:57 - 07:18
I don't know, maybe it's Americans. I don't know what it is, but to be not heard is a big deal. And it goes, I mean, it goes even further if you're female or if you're a female of color, if you're a person of color, if you're this or that. Not being heard or seen is a big deal.
 
Dr Melonie
07:18 - 07:28
So you can be heard or seen in a variety of ways, I think. So that's what I think about it. I really like it when I feel listened to and heard.
 
Greg
07:28 - 07:43
Thank you, Dr. Melanie. Yeah, it's very important and reassuring. You know, this question came about from something I shared with a friend. I'm not from the United States, as you can probably tell by my accent, which allegedly I have an accent, but I disagree.
 
Greg
07:44 - 07:58
Anyway, I was sharing with this friend, you know, I don't have family here, and one thing and another, and I said, sometimes it can get a bit lonely. And she said, I know exactly how you feel. And I was thinking, well, you know, your situation is kind of different than mine. And it does take the emphasis off you and your struggle, doesn't it?
 
Greg
07:59 - 08:07
So it's really important. Sometimes what might we say to a friend who is struggling? So Ellie, how about you? You're sharing the struggle with a friend.
 
Greg
08:07 - 08:09
What would be a helpful response from them?
 
Ellie
08:09 - 08:45
This question is so much more complicated than it seems, because as I sit here and I think about what helps me, I automatically kind of shift into the other role of imagining myself providing something like that, and I notice how tricky it is on the other side, right? The two are not... And I think part of what's there is The second that somebody's following advice about how to respond, it means that they're not actually tuned in and it falls flat. And so there's this way that I can't even quite answer the question.
 
Ellie
08:45 - 09:06
So I know for me, some of the things that always get in the way are somebody who tries to reframe it, tries to fix it. All of those are the things that make me feel like I'm not being heard or somebody's not with me. Some of the ones that really work, but they would stop working if they got overused. I've got one friend who always says, oh my God, that sucks.
 
Ellie
09:06 - 09:32
Or, oh, I hate when that happens. And when they say that to me, I just have this sense of like, oh, it's okay for me to bitch and moan about this, which I really appreciate. And then once I've bitched and moaned, then it helps if I get questions that help me bring myself to a deeper level of thinking. But it's really about helping me think it through and not getting somebody else's reframe, especially on it.
 
Greg
09:33 - 09:41
Thanks, Sally. And it is very difficult, especially when you're in the moment. Gretchen, how about you? You're sharing a struggle, something that you're struggling with, and you're sharing with a friend.
 
Greg
09:41 - 09:44
What would be a helpful response by that friend?
 
Gretchen
09:45 - 10:00
This is something that has come up. It's something Bob and I learned. I've been married for 48 years, 47, 48, I don't know, a long time. And he is entirely left brain and I'm contrarily, and he always tries to fix things.
 
Gretchen
10:00 - 10:19
And it came to the point where I would say, I don't want a solution. I need you to listen. And so, what's really helpful to me is, and for me too, now when I'm with others, is that I know, I was like, do you, what do you need in this? Do you need to just vent this?
 
Gretchen
10:19 - 10:30
Say it? And for me, if somebody says to me, and he'll say, do you want a solution? Do you want ideas? Or do you just need to be heard on this one?
 
Gretchen
10:30 - 11:02
And do you need to just get stuff out? So when it comes to when I'm struggling with something, that's the big thing is that give me the option. And I think I have to focus through when I'm doing that, interacting with others. I think if I need that, I need that option of, no, I don't want a solution, I just need to get it out, or say, or vent, or have some empathy around the situation, or do I need ideas?
 
Gretchen
11:03 - 11:16
And it might be both. It might be a stair step of like, I'm at this level, I need to get this, and then we can either spiral down or stair step up, one of the two. That's me.
 
Greg
11:16 - 11:24
Thanks, Gretchen. Yeah, that's really helpful. You might not know what you need, and that's okay as well. And it would be really helpful if someone said, what is it that you need?
 
Greg
11:24 - 11:34
I really like that as a response from a friend. And, you know, he said, I'm not really sure. And the response back could be, well, you know, I'm here to listen. So absolutely great pointers on that.
 
Greg
11:35 - 11:41
Hilary, you're talking to a friend, you're sharing a struggle. What would be a helpful response?
 
Hillary
11:41 - 12:03
Greg, this is a great question. This is a great question. I am about to find out. I literally get to reflect on what do I want to hear from a friend I've been reaching out to over the last few days to talk about something very specific that I'm hoping to get their help with.
 
Hillary
12:03 - 12:29
So that really gets me into that mindset of what would I want to hear from them? And then of course then I think about how would I respond to somebody coming to me with this kind of situation. And I'm not sure I would naturally do what I'm hoping to get. So what I'm hoping to get would be someone, and I think I want this from everybody, is somebody who will ask clarifying questions.
 
Hillary
12:30 - 13:02
Because if you're listening to me ramble on about something, the odds of me using the proper words to truly describe the complexity of the abstract thought I am trying to get across, you know, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get it right on the first time. So if you were to ask a clarifying question, I think to me, That's the symbol, the action of active listening. And active listening is a skill. I'm still a Toastmaster.
 
Hillary
13:02 - 13:30
I've been a Toastmaster for eight years to better communicate across the board. And the listening is such an important part of the communication concept, you know, to take it in. And that's the concept, you know, not waiting to reply. but to marinate in what they said to you because that's the acceptance of the message.
 
Hillary
13:30 - 13:47
And that's when somebody feels hurt because those words went in and they could tell. So I would hope for that, but I'm not saying I would actually do that. I think I am more of a, I call myself a distractor. So I will listen.
 
Hillary
13:47 - 14:05
I think I'm one of those, man, that sucks kind of thing. And I would hope to, get better at asking clarifying questions myself. I think I'm going to turn that into a maybe table topics at Toastmasters. Greg, this might have given me a really good idea.
 
Hillary
14:05 - 14:12
So yeah, I think that's what I hope for, what I think I do, and a new game plan. Thanks, Greg. You're welcome.
 
Greg
14:12 - 14:26
Hillary, I know exactly how you feel. I'm joking. I'm sorry, I couldn't help. But you know, the clarifying questions, that's a wonderful thing because it shows that they're listening and that they want to understand and they're engaged.
 
Greg
14:26 - 14:46
But it made me think as well that with the whole communication issue, maybe on the flip side of it, we could ask better questions or maybe we could share them better. We could say to a friend, I'm really struggling and I don't need you to try and solve it. I need someone, I need to talk and I just need you to hear. That communication is a two-way street as well.
 
Greg
14:46 - 14:53
Thanks, Hilary, for that. Shadows, you're sharing a struggle with a friend. What would be helpful to hear in response?
 
Shadows Pub
14:55 - 15:07
That's kind of foreign territory for me. I'm usually more on the listening side. So, yeah, I guess probably I'd want to see some indication that I'm not only being listened to, but that I'm being understood.
 
Greg
15:07 - 15:13
Thanks, Shadows. Waylene, you're sharing a struggle with a friend. What would be a helpful response from your friend?
 
Wai Ling
15:14 - 15:56
So by now, I think we have so many rich answers around the room. And I really think that when the person who is sharing the struggle, they are usually maybe a little bit more embedded in whatever they are struggling with. So I feel in that situation, the listener should be the one who should have the emotional intelligence. And I really, really think it's about having active listening like you're listening not to respond but to understand and I really like what Gretchen say on the one the person who is sharing they can if they have the emotional intelligence they can say all right I want to
 
Wai Ling
15:57 - 16:50
vent or I want to process this emotion with you or I need advice because I think you can support me in whatever because this is something that you have gone through But really, listening is really, really a gift that you can give to that person who is sharing. And I also think people should be comfortable with silence, both sides. That you can just speak and let it land and just let whatever that is processing process and not needing to just feel every moment. and I think that's something that I'm also trying to work towards not only asking questions where clarifying but also ask curiosity questions like why do you feel so or how does it make you feel like that you know and not really needing to rush to a conclusion so
 
Wai Ling
16:51 - 17:01
yeah those are my thoughts and I think that at the end of the day the listener has more responsibility in really being there for that person.
 
Greg
17:02 - 17:06
Thank you, Wei Ling. Absolutely. I agree with that. You know, communication is so, so important.
 
Greg
17:06 - 17:23
We're not all toward it. And you know, communication changes depending on the medium, doesn't it? You know, if we're face to face with somebody, we can see facial expressions, we can see body language, we can see tells when we're talking to them, but we can't see them. We can still pick up on tone of voice and collection, volume, things like that.
 
Greg
17:24 - 17:33
If we are communicating in writing, all we have is the words and oh boy, can they sometimes be Please see the video description for more information.
 
Alessandra
17:36 - 17:57
Well, it is. And, you know, a question like today's, like, I almost, I'm getting to the point where I could anticipate what shadows may say to every once in a while, I'll have a question. And so she, this was one of those days, I'm like, I think I know what she's going to say. Let me tell you about shadows.
 
Alessandra
17:58 - 18:35
I would love if we, if we figured out a way I have been an emotional kitten up a tree on a myriad of occasions. And she would be the fireman who would come to the tree and maybe ask me one question. And in her skill of being able to do that, I would find myself in really rapid time, re-regulating my whole nervous system. And I don't know how she does it.
 
Alessandra
18:35 - 19:26
I don't know if it's some hippie witch shit she does, but it is a skill and I would love to learn. The thing that she knows how to do with crafting a very, very brief, clarifying question that helps me when I'm having a hard time. And then when I was listening to Gretchen's response, about what she has worked out with Bob. When I am emoting, it can be really hard to put the words together to say what's happening to me, to someone that I know cares about my welfare.
 
Alessandra
19:27 - 19:41
And when I'm really upset, I would love that. And Devin does that. And I think it may not be as left brain styled as what Bob does for Gretchen. But I do love that.
 
Alessandra
19:41 - 19:56
Because even this week, I remember you saying to me, Devin, when I was telling you about my struggle, you were like, look, I don't want to fix you. If you want an idea in that direction, we can go there. But I just want you to know that I'm here. What do you have, Dr. Melanie?
 
Dr Melonie
19:57 - 20:45
You know, it's also different. I mean, dealing with, for instance, any of us with a certain level of experience and emotional intelligence already, some of what we can do very quickly with each other or ourselves, you can't do with everybody. So, you know, it also depends on who's having the struggle and maybe a little bit how old they are or what they're used to, which takes a little, as I like to call it in my work, profiling and a little test question, you know, and you sort of or maybe even not a test question, maybe just something that's like something that you think will either challenge them or let them know that you're actually sort of sitting there listening.
 
Dr Melonie
20:46 - 21:01
Or you already understand where the hell they are and, you know, how would they like you to go ahead with it? I mean, that's possible to do. But, you know, I mean, none of us are 20 anymore, so it's a whole different kettle of fish. I mean, we've practiced this shit.
 
Greg
21:02 - 21:11
Thanks, Dr. Melanie. I think sometimes the closer you are as well, the more it could be misconstrued because we think we know what they're going to say. Well, Gretchen, I see you have your hand up. What are your thoughts?
 
Gretchen
21:12 - 21:53
Well, I just want to clarify that asking what do you need in this situation doesn't come easily. That came about for us after years of struggling with not having that happen and the fact that We were more committed to being together than to being so that it's caused problems. So it came to a point, it really does come to a point where it's a conscious effort and it is not easy for him. to stop his natural way of trying to fix everything and look at it.
 
Gretchen
21:54 - 22:35
But because of the commitment that we have to each other, it took a long time. And so it's like Wai Ling said about the active listening. It is a conscious effort that you need to say to yourself every time you go into a situation or you're experiencing a situation like that going, hold it. Somebody's sharing, this is not about me, this is about what they're sharing, and if that's what you're hearing, and if you're going into a situation where you're sharing something and the person you're sharing with is not there for you in that, Then why are you sharing it that
 
Gretchen
22:35 - 22:59
with them? Maybe reevaluate and tell or maybe you just haven't told them and that's what came down to it this for us This is how this was discovered. It was a Norwegian redhead blown her top going. I don't need a Solution I need a listen and the look on the face was like oh Why didn't you
 
Hillary
22:59 - 23:00
say that?
 
Greg
23:00 - 23:03
Right. Communication.
 
Hillary
23:03 - 23:32
I just wanted to get in a shameless plug for Toastmasters to say this is the perfect place to practice such skills where the exercises are active listening and learning how to give proper responses and evaluations of things. It's as hokey as it sounds. It makes my communication in my relationship better. and it's a skill set that works across the board.
 
Hillary
23:32 - 23:34
Toastmasters, yay!
 
Greg
23:35 - 23:41
Thanks Hilary. Maybe we can put a note in the show notes with a link for learn more about Toastmasters.
 
Dr Melonie
23:41 - 24:05
There's also something called non-violent communication which is a group, oh my goodness I forgot the name of the psychologist who started it, but it works really well for beginners on up and they have places all over the world you can just google NVC so that's also another way to sort of actually learn how to do it and then maybe apply it in a Toastmaster.
 
Alessandra
24:06 - 24:37
It sounds like a beautiful topic for for a future episode is what in the world is nonviolent communication? And how is that something that you can pull into your life and into your creative work? We're always looking for juicy topics that get us interested enough because we are very we are In Creative Work Hour, this group comes together on a daily basis. And honestly, the tagline for the first year and a half was, we are the best group of friends we've ever had that don't talk.
 
Alessandra
24:38 - 24:47
Because all we do is come in. In the first five minutes, we say, we're going to work on this. And then we turn all of our mics off. And at the end, we turn our mics back on.
 
Alessandra
24:47 - 24:52
We're like, OK, this is actually what happened. And there's no shame. So you don't have to lie about it. Boom, we're done.
 
Alessandra
24:54 - 25:34
And so, yes, the best group of friends that don't talk to each other. So this podcast has become the gift that we give ourselves that once a week we take a topic that has been emerging through the creative work of each of us and we find that thread and we pull that thread and we refine it into a question that we serve to each of us that are equal co-hosts in this episode, and we work the topic, and that is the cake that we all bake together. And yeah, we've got to break a few eggs to make it, and sometimes the mics are wonky, but the conversation is always loving, accepting.
 
Alessandra
25:35 - 26:02
We have learned to listen to each other as the core value of Creative Work Hour from day one, that this is a safe place. that it's okay if shit happens in your life. And we have found that this little group has been the landing spot when some of us have gotten the worst news that a guy can get. And in those moments when you're like, I don't know what to do, we'll have people come here.
 
Alessandra
26:02 - 26:21
And that has got to be the greatest compliment of any of my life's work. I know that. And I know that the trustworthiness that's in this room is nothing that I will ever, ever take for granted. I'm just wondering, Greg, because this may be our longest episode ever.
 
Alessandra
26:21 - 26:31
We like to kind of keep them short, but the value just kept building layer after layer. So Greg, I got to ask you, What time is it?
 
Greg
26:31 - 26:45
It's that time again. You've wasted some perfectly good time listening to the Creative Work Hour podcast when you could have been doing something else. But how about you? If you were sharing a struggle with a friend, what would be helpful to hear back from them?
 
Greg
26:46 - 26:51
Visit us on creativeworkhour.com and come back next week and we'll have another discussion.